Society for Sacred Sexuality – SSS Initiative to legalize sacred sex instruction

Posted: July 8, 2004

This is a discussion Forum about the Society for Sacred Sexuality's initiative to legalize sacred sex instruction by certified teachers for hire.

What's not 'legal' about teaching sacred sex?

Often nothing, as there are various ways of educating, counseling, and coaching in sacred sex (such as this website) that are perfectly legal.

But, in case you haven't noticed, it is sacred SEX, and there is such a thing as hands-on learning (literally)!

In fact, this is the traditional and most effective way to teach sacred sex because, to use an analogy, you can learn all you want about passion fruit, but until you see it, touch it, smell it, taste it, and FEEL it inside, you don't REALLY know passion fruit.

So what's the problem with learning-by-doing? Well, nothing if you're born into unlimited wealth and your only desire is to selflessly teach whoever wishes to learn, for free.

But if you're like the rest of humanity, who rely on and deserve to be paid for offering valued goods and services to society, there's a rub -- and it rubs many the wrong way:

Sex, unfortunately, has gotten a pretty bad rap over the millennia due to most people not knowing much about it (we fear what we don't know). Consequently, the idea of sexual exchange for hire leaves, shall we say, a bad taste in society's mouth. Of course, we would argue that the taste left in your mouth depends on your perception of what you put in it (i.e. sex may be filthy to you, but it's sacred to us). However, we don't make the laws.

And so the nasty 'P' word rears its ugly head (prostitution, for those who've forgotten the world's oldest profession), resulting in sacred sex educators who choose to teach this way being carted off to jail like common criminals, or at least, living under fear of such.

The only legal alternative is to diminish your effectiveness as a teacher by taking the sex out of sacred sex (like teaching someone piano without a piano), resulting in less success for clients, higher drop-out rate (meaning fewer clients & less income), all leading to less social interest in and appreciation of sacred sex.

The Society for Sacred Sexuality seeks to establish a simple point of law: that there is a distinction between common sex and sacred sex, both in method and result (the experience it leads to), and that while common sex for hire may (or may not) have negative social effects, sacred sex - whether for hire or not - brings social benefit.

Therefore, the Society for Sacred Sexuality argues that law should acknowledge this distinction and legislate sacred sex separately, according to its own merits, not those of common sex. We encourage state legislatures, mainly responsible for writing laws relating to sex work, to consider this distinction and pass more specifically targeted statutes.

(The Society for Sacred Sexuality takes no position on decriminalizing sex work in general, except we support it if it is the only means to legalize sacred sex work. We believe that given the freedom and choice, society will, in time, choose sacred sex over common sex, to beneficial effect.)

For more information, see the Interview with Gary Joseph detailing this issue for the press.

You can also track the current status of the legal action.

We invite users to discuss the issue of legal sacred sex instruction by certified teachers for hire in this Forum. Share your views and experience, and ask questions.

If you have specific ideas for establishing the legal distinction between sacred sex and conventional sex, post them in the Sister Topic in this Forum.

To pledge time, money, or resources toward this cause, use this Sister Topic.

Should sacred sex instruction by certified teachers for hire be legal? VOTE!

Don't get mad -- GET LEGAL!

Red Join the Sacred Sex Revolution Red

Educate the public, and lawmakers, about the distinction between sacred sex and common sex, and encourage laws that distinguish between them and regulate according to the merits of each.

Posted: August 21, 2004

as a sexual healer and teacher i believe that the art form of touch for healing should be legalized.
yet i also have concerns about the ethics behind the work some people do.
i have had to salvage quite a few clients that has been devestated by their previous experience with a "teacher". they went looking for help and healing and received sexual advances and hand jobs in the guise of teaching.
how can we make sexual healing work look and be different than prostitution if so many practicioners are doing just that?
i believe that prostitution should be legalized as well, but i see a big difference in what i do and that form of exchange.

Posted: August 22, 2004

I agree with you 100% and it's a very important issue. I've tried to address this by putting the initiative forward as 'legalizing sacred sex instruction by certified teachers for hire'.

What that certification entails, and who administers it, etc., are details that must be worked out in conjunction with the legalization. Perhaps the accreditation board should be comprised of women, before whom applicants must demonstrate their genuine teaching & counseling capacities.

Of course no system is perfect and some will abuse it, but there are unscrupulous professionals in all fields of life, and society must deal with them through the legal system.

We have to remember the big picture. The unhealthy sexuality that pervades society (including what you've mentioned) is due to lack of knowledge & practice of sacred sex. To restrict access to sacred sex on account of our unhealthy sexual environment only perpetuates the cycle. Yes, there will be abuses at the beginning due to the ingrained ignorance, but these will diminish in time as the knowledge becomes widespread. Then all of society's sexual pathos - objectification of women, domestic violence, sexual harassment, abuse, rape, etc. - will fade with it, and it will have been worth the effort.

It's not unlike what's happening in Russia with its shift from communism to democracy and free market economics. For 70 years they built no social or economic infrastructure to support a free society. The first 20 years were difficult and many were abusing the system -- the economy was set free and a lot of criminal business activity came up. It's like sweeping dirt under the rug -- yes, there's some mess when you clean it up, but you can't keep sweeping it under. Now things are starting to smooth out and pick up in Russia.

We have to acknowledge our past unconscious sexuality, and accept & deal with the consequences so we can move past it to a more conscious one.

The best solution is probably a transitional shift, more highly regulated at first to minimize abuse, and less regulated as society matures. One possible idea - and I say this as a man who acknowledges that 99% of what you describe is perpetrated by men against women - is to begin by legalizing sacred sex instruction by female teachers.

One beautiful thing about sacred sex is that women are perfectly suited to teach & heal both men AND women through sacred sex; many women respond better to female teachers. Female teachers likely will comprise the major market for this profession anyway, which would create the side benefit that primarily men would be elevating their sexuality. Women intuitively tend toward sacred sex on their own.

I'm interested to hear what others think about this issue.

Posted: August 24, 2004

Post subject: Litigate or Educate - that is the question

Dear Gary,

I appreciate your intention and I too am angered at the lack of resources available to deal with "private and intimate" issues, in simpler and plainer terms sexual concerns. I have assisted countless individual and couples who have tried every known form of traditional and legal therapy and medications to resolve issues involving their sexuality. Often I am the last resort. And more often than not, the issue is resolved through my willingness to expose myself to the scrutiny of the courts. And the interesting fact is, that when I share the risk I am taking with them, they don't believe that what I do for them could possibly be against the law. So like many other things in our society, ours is a plight that very few of the masses even know about.

I understand what you mean about "sacred" sexuality -- because that's what I label what I do also. And I realize that it has nothing to do with religion or god - and yet it has EVERYTHING to do with the quality of our life from both a spiritual as well as a physical standpoint. Sexual energy is our life force -- our fountain of youth.

I could go on for hours about the amazing healings that have occurred in my healing space over the last 10 years of my practice. And other sensual healers share similar stories.

So understand that I feel your pain and your anger. However, I must disagree with your direction. And I think I can disagree with some experience and some knowledge of that which I speak. I have been a crusader rabbit for clothing optional lifestyles and beaches for over 20 years and have been involved in the political, governmental and public awareness campaigns which successfully legalized nudity on certain public lands in various parts of the US.

In gaining acceptability for anything as controversial as what we do, the key ingredient is EDUCATION. It is about public awareness first and foremost. It is removing the fear and stigma what we have placed around sex and sexuality for generations. We gain acceptability by formulating a track record -- a presence of proven facts that what we do is not only healthy and wonderful but truly adds healing and wholeness to those whom we tend.

In that vein, organizations such as yours and SWICA and others (my own Sacred Haven is a not-for-profit religious organization) must come together and develop a sound and practical plan to defuse the fear based repression around human sexuality.

I agree with Gayle, that your time and resources would be much better spent in a creative and positive approach to gaining acceptability rather than an adversarial one. You could win the suit and loose the war. Or even worse -- you could loose the suit because you are ill prepared to effect the change and suddenly we have a negative strike against us that can be cited by legal opponents for years to come. We don't want that. We want the world to know what wonderful things happen when one is totally in tune with one's sensuality and can safely and honorably incorporate it into a holistic lifestyle of other healthy practices like breathing and eating.

There are lots of positive things happening in our favor. Through the great efforts of Dr. Joseph Kramer, founder of Body Electric in San Francisco, a Sexological Bodwork Certification course is offered through The Institute for Advanced Studies of Human Sexuality, that is accepted as a valid treatment modality by the State of California (see www.sexologicalbodywork.com ).

The Institute of Advanced Study of Human Sexuality is an accredited private institution chartered to degree masters and doctorates/phds in various disciplines of Human Sexuality. I am currently enrolled in the doctorate program. See ( www.iashs.edu ).

In October, we are having our first East Coast Conference of Dakas and Dakinis and other Sensual Healers. The West Coast has had two. There are several Sexological organizations who are listening to what we need. Oprah has featured Tantra and Sexual Coaching workshops and therapists on her program.

Physicians, Psychologists, Ministers and other professionals are beginning to recognize the benefits of sexual healing modalities and are learning more and understanding that what those of us who have taken the time and the risk to truly educate ourselves about anatomy and sexual systems and come from an honoring space rather than an exploitive or worse yet a shame-based point of view are making a difference.

So while I understand your desire to fight for our rights, please consider that you might be cutting off your nose to spite your face. Slow down a bit and patiently build a strong foundation with those of us who are educating with facts and truths rather than litigating with indignation and ego.

I send you love and light

Posted: August 29, 2004

I appreciate these comments, and I agree with you about the need for and value of education. In fact, this has been my focus for over two decades. I've only turned to the current course of action because of limits I've seen in educating about a field as unique as ours.

My experience is that we mainly 'preach to the converted'. Most people who find this teaching do so because they are looking and already open to this kind of knowledge. There is not much interest from mainstream society. That's not because it has no value to them; it's because people are so entrenched in and habituated to certain ways of living that they don't respond to things outside their accepted paradigm.

Sometimes it takes someone to openly challenge that paradigm before they sit up and take notice. Then they finally hear what you have to say and make a conscious choice for change. In that sense, a legal challenge IS part of educating society -- it brings the issue to public attention for the conscious choice it deserves.

This has been the way with nearly all social change. The civil rights movement came to a point where the status quo had to be challenged. Yes, there was conflict as some clung to old ways, but in addressing the issue consciously, America moved forward and our nation is stronger and better off as a result.

There is nothing 'egotistical' about standing up for Truth. Ego has gotten a bad rap in new age and enlightenment circles as something always to be subjugated. Ego is only an obstacle to life when it is not aligned with natural evolution. Ego aligned with Truth is a beacon of light in the world promoting that Truth. They become part of the Cosmic Ego or Divine Will. Christ, Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Abraham Lincoln, the American Founding Fathers -- they all acted through ego to promote true principles. And they did so in spite of strong, even violent opposition. And in each case, Truth won out in the end.

All I'm saying here is that we shouldn't be afraid to stand for truth; whether or not now is the time to make that stand is what is open for discussion, and the purpose of this Forum. I certainly appreciate the value of education, and would like nothing more than to see society take up sacred sex as a result of the teachings that are available to it.

The question is: is society ready and willing to do it, or does it need a little push?

I invite others to share their views.

Posted: April 21, 2005

Legalising and certifying sexual Healers is not going to protect the public any more than it is protected right now because the unethical and sex focused folks will STILL ply their trades and act as they are currently doing without regard for legalities and integrity.
Just as gun control legislation limits access to people who obey the law it does NOTHING to limit the criminals who ignore the law and operate by their own standards: GIVE PEOPLE WHAT THEY WANT.
When people who want authentic Sexual Healing and not prostitution{ again ,I have no problem with prostitutes doing what they do} they will find facilitators who actually provide Sexual Healing- the fact that this discussion is taking place signals a sea-change in awareness.
Evelynn"s emphasis on education is right on . The PUBLIC, all of the me's and you's in every place, need to know that there is a difference between Sexual Healing and prostitution even if they APPEAR TO BE THE SAME from the outside . The idea of "non sexual intimate touch" is difficult to comprehend { one student of a" Luminary Teacher" could not BEGIN to comprehend this concept in a conversation we had}

Posted: April 21, 2005

New Contributor Joined: 25 Oct 2005 Posts: 8

Hi, I am new to all of this.

I have been practicing tantric diksha meditation for most of my life and got much internal bliss out of this in a different manner, yet I got much inner bliss out of it and much love.

Coming across all the sexual healing articles on the net, I realize that we all need some sexual healing in one way or another and that includes the sexual healers too. Getting sexual healing is much harder because of the vastly inflated prices for workshops out there which is a turn off for women who have a hard time making ends meet. I often wonder, if sexual healing is only meant for those with cash flow. If the vast majority of the population remains neglected or outside of these developments we can't expect them to be open for all the changes which are going to come. After all, healing is not meant for them.

Also, some of the courses are so expensive that I would want somebody with credentials to heal me. I mean there are many good lovers out there but I really don't want to be attached to my healer. After the session is over I am on my own right? I want somebody who knows about indications, contraindications, endangerment zones, basic hugene, etc.

Many people are drawn to the sex industry because there is money to be made and they are not necessarily trained as sexual healers. They just want to pay their bills - like anybody else and if they would be independently rich they wouldn't do handjobs and rubdowns and call it healing.

I mean, how do I know somebody is a real healer? Orgasm isn't what I am after, I can get fullbody O's on my own. Also, I did some work with the Osho community and have done pelvic breathing. Really, if I am honest I wish to be seen for who I am as a person. The big O's come later because they are pressured upon us women to give and get all the time.

I mean a lovely meditation with just reiki hands on would heal me more than all the pressures about breathing and oceanic O's.

Anyway, as a consumer, I want somebody who knows what they are doing in the field, especially if I pay so much money. I don't want an escort who has not dealt with her own issues pretending to be a healer. I would be repulsed by that.

In a way, because of my own pain I don't trust people who have no credentials. Even Margo Anand has credentials.

I am an excellent LMP myself and often we are being despised for not touching the private parts of clients. All I can tell you is that the kind of work we do is equally nurturing because we actually get clients who are really sick and are in need of therapeutic healing. Not everything can be cured with an big giant O. Some clients of mine have been escorts, and pole dancers and they yearn for non invasive and non-sexual touch. Looking down on each other causes pain and not healing.

I think I am feeling unsafe to go to sexual healers who look down on my profession for not giving enough to my clients (who are also in need of sexual healing because otherwise they would respect our professional boundaries), and yet I need it. Also, I am proud to be a professional as well as a sexy women and I have clients who go to all worlds and still come to me because I am just giving a far better massage than somebody untrained... They simply love me.

Tell me is it really possible to be a sexual healer without training in this day and age with all the deseases out there? I doubt it. Maybe I am wrong.

I think sexual healer is a powerful profession and people are so vulnerable. How can one be a healer without training.

Anyway, that's where I am at. Are my worries not justified? It is not easy to trust when people don't see my but my money (as legit people wew earn far less because not many people want therapeutic work anymore, which they actually need just as much as sexual healing, in my opinion). luv

Also, I often remember that the adult industry is also in dire need of sexual healing and that includes the hard-porn industry, the traffickers and all the pimps out there. I am puzzled how so many sexual healers can work in such a climate. It seems unhealthy. Where do I start to understand there is so much to think about? Does what I say make sense at all?

Posted: October 25, 2005

These are good points. In response:

Posted: January 4, 2006

Hello Gary ! Happy New Year. I just read the interview article - you provided much needed clarity to this issue. I hope the interviewer was able to see your perspective.

I support the legalization of sacred sex teaching and instruction. If I can be of other help (such as signing a petition or otherwise), let me know.

I'll jump back into the forums over the coming months. Thanks for all your work here...things look great!

Magy

Posted: January 4, 2006

Hi Magy,

One thing everyone can do is vote in the surveys set up in this forum. They'll be a public voice for everyone's views on this issue. Here are the links:

VOTE whether sacred sex instruction by certified teachers for hire should be legal

VOTE whether the SSS should challenge laws prohibiting sacred sex instruction

Thanks for supporting this issue -- every voice counts, especially female voices: it's important for people to see that women view this as a means of empowerment, not victimization.

Posted: February 23, 2006

Hello - A first posting by me.

These arguments are great, and the social issues around sacred sexual work apply everywhere.

I guess I'm just lucky - In South Africa, prostitution is legal, so even if Tantrikas get classified with them, it's fine.

Sympathies to the USA practicioners, and hello again, Gayle, and Gary Joseph (wherever you are, I know Gayle's Texan).

Love to all

Posted: February 23, 2006

Maybe we should all move to S. Africa !!!

Johannesburg & Cape Town just got added to the list of potential sites for the future Shrine to Sacred Sexuality.

I invite you to share some insights as to the social impact of those laws in SA. I know that in Nevada, the only US state with legal prostitution, the industry is very regulated to control STD's & public visibility. In SA, is it the same, or more self-regulated? If the latter, do sex workers take responsibility for this, or is it lacking? Also, what is the public opinion of these laws?

I know sacred sex instruction is clearly distinct from common prostitution, but I also know that in places like Nevada, even prostitution hasn't proven to be the major social problem many claim it to be. Countries that successfully allow legal sex work in society can set a positive precedent for others.

Posted: February 23, 2006

It's being worked on. One day, we'll maybe get you all here! The best way to do it here is the way the politicians do it. Summers in Cape Town, Winters in Johannesburg. You'll need 2 shrines.

There doesn't seem to be much about regulation, and it will anyway be applied South African style, which means it wouldn't be a problem anyway.

There's a couple of fellows been teaching openly, one for many years. No harassment, no trouble.

On paper, this place has the sweetest constitution on the planet as far as I know. https://www.polity.org.za/html/govdocs/constitution/saconst.html?rebookmark=1

- people here in the main tend to be v conservative, though there is late night soft porn on one tv channel (I'm trying to get some tantra or something sex-positive in there...) and there's a large "seeker" population.

Posted: February 24, 2006

Is there any STD or other negative social impact?

Posted: February 24, 2006

The STD (especially HIV) in South Africa is a big issue, mainly because of huge pharm. Corps spending on "awareness". We are so aware, such money being spent, and endless ad campaigns telling us how the latest antiretrovirals don't kill patients as quickly as the ones we were all told to take last year...

There is a huge STD problem. Not in Tantra circles, but in much of the population. This is because of a terrible perversity - "dry sex" for which some studies indicate an over 90% prevalence.

It seems to be an aspirational thing. Buying into the hairless, bloodless, airbrushed and unnaturally perfumed woman that's been sold worldwide by hollywood et al. Obviously such a woman is "pure" and doesn't leak fluids! There's also a suspicion (probably because of all the "sex is the source of disease" propaganda) that the woman's juices are a source of illness. Women do terrible things to themselves to make sure they are nice and dry for their lover, the lovers have been circumcised, so they have little sensitivity. There isn't any way one could arrange better STD transmission.

I proposed a new definition for rape on a local newsgroup - entry without sufficient natural lubrication - didn't go down too well.

Condoms are all very well - but locally, it's almost impossible to get UNlubricated ones. SK21 lubricant (silicone like Q20, tool-in-a-can) has been shown to cause lesions. Now, that's serious for STD transmission risk.

The general population, however, is not the same as the "aware seeker" population which does much better.

We haven't seen a hint of an std around this tantra school in the couple of years we've been going. I could theorise as to why, but then I'll be in more trouble than Duesberg!

Posted: February 25, 2006

Posted: March 1, 2006

[ MODERATOR'S NOTE: The following message is part of a post by rahasya in the Sacred Sex Society Forum; it has been copied here for relevance to legalizing sacred sex instruction. The entire original post can be viewed here. ]

Yellow

Rahasya said:

If a legal challenge is on account of us feeling threatened, wanting the culture to be "fair" with us, wanting things to be more convenient - if it's out of any flavour of fear, then I find it deplorable if "sacred sex work" is legalised, and "non-spiritual" forms of sex work aren't.

I'm happy to take advantage of sex work (our new politically correct term which replaces "prostitute") freedom, and though what I do isn't, as you rightly say elsewhere on your site, the same. Just, to the culture, it is the same, in exact definition (coitus happens, or it doesn't).

Personally, I'd prefer you to be trying to legalise ALL sex work, sacred or otherwise, because it's from the "mud" of real base, root chakra sexuality that the "lotus" of the higher forms grows. Sex, at any level, however it looks, is the seed, and is sacred.

I applaud your efforts to make the various distinctions of sexual work clear, it may well support the current thaw in cultural attitudes. Also the awareness that's sure to be provoked in seekers visiting here - that's beyond conventional ideas of value.

Posted: March 1, 2006

New Contributor Joined: 25 Oct 2005 Posts: 8

One thing is for sure, as a massage therapist, and I am a good one, I come across sexual arousal at tiems. I love my clients and I got great reviews on the net. My work is archetypical and the flow integrated. I am well loved. I studied some sky dancing tantra, gestalt, a lot of somatic work, reich, stupid rebirthing techniques in the tub, and other emotional clearing work in the past. I also know somehow I would do a good job as a sexual healer. I surely have experimented with my own orgasmic responses and got full body orgasms (although I have to say again that in my case that there is a huge difference in the form of bliss which I experience between FBO and in very deep tantric sadhana).

Now, I am licensed. Having access to the general population has been good for me financial and it's a low stress way to make a living for me. I certainly have clients who think of me as a healer, even though I am reluctant to portrait myself that way. I also faced clients who wanted a "happy ending."� I did not want to be impolite but that route is not easy to take, knowing that these clients are not really coming for healing but for bragging at escort-review boards about who does what out there and "destroying professional lives"� as a result. There are certainly other ethical issues. I just don't want to give power away to people who can destroy my life and what I love doing. For me to pretend to start sexual healing on a client would eventually lead to the loss of my partner, whom I love, and I would loose my license (some states are all too eager to get you) and as a result would have to do sex work because that's easiest but not a healthy way to enterer sex work and sexual healing work at all, I believe. Now, even though I figure that every client is send to me by Purusha (divine consciousness), I would have a hard time doing sexual healing and advancing full body orgasm to every single person who comes into the door. I know I could work with some when agreed upon in advance. There needs to be a vibe as well. I certainly can't understand how this sexual healing can be done in one hour as I have read on escort review boards by these little tantrics. Anyway, I believe I could do sexual healing with some people but not with everybody. I know how breath, movement, sound, and chakra ideation moves the orgasmic response around the body (at least in me and my partner). Wouldn't it be nice to teach this sort of healing should be learned to every teenager right from the start? Everybody should have that kind of coaching so it will safe us all a lot of issues.

I noticed that a lot of sexual healers, the ones I meet, and I met quiet few from the Osho community and other places, don't think it's important to do tantric sadhana and often think tantric sadhana is something outdated. What made me feel reluctant to trust these healers IS because I do tantric sadhana and it's hard to even remotely even imagine do be a tantric person without doing tantric inner spiritual lessons on a daily basis. One can be a powerful lover and connect to the universes, and even stay aroused all day long, and be thrilled about the unity of life but tantric sadhana is something so refined and subtle, it's hard to believe that this to me most important part it's not integrated in the neo-tantric community. Tantric sadhana leads to tremendous amounts of bliss and ultimately spiritual liberation. Maybe some people find that part less inspiring; I like the idea of liberation at any moment

For me, I know I have to integrate some other aspects but it's so hard for me to surrender to somebody who does not do tanric sadhana. I just can't get over this feeling of net feeling understood. One thing I know for sure, I never met a man who truly could do meditation even with me together in a united fashion. I know the techniques and dicussed the neo-tantric ones. I have other techniques in mind as well. I wished to create the subtle currents of bliss within but meditators are either closed off to this or the neo tanric practitioners are to hang up on the multi-orgasmic-response of the full-body-orgasm. It would have been nice to find a shiva who understands the world of tantric sadhana as deeply as the connection of the neo-tantric full body multy orgasmic response with the feeling of merging. There is still something subtler within us which could be explored and merged with. I will maybe never find the particular combination of merging which I know I have the potential for, and I tend not to look for it much either. I certainly don't want to pay for it at this point, because bliss and spirituality as powerful lessons was always for "free"� for me (from the source in India I learned from -- I however, donated to the poor in return). It seems that my little desire to meditate with a tantric Shiva deeply may remain unfulfilled. My own partner can't even do it. He thinks I am superficial and should consider myself lucky that I even get that much bliss in meditation. Why should I have such a desire to start off with? I just can't imagine after all the lessons I got in tantra in India for free that I now have to pay a sexual healer so much money, and still that person usually does not know how to meditate and do basic dhyan, for instance. Still, I am sure I can always learn something but I tend to look up to people when they are most honest regardless of they meditate or not. I have no judgments but when it comes to the core of my inner being there need to be teachers who understand that part. Anyway, when the time is ready all things falls into place.

I wonder of course, is there something wrong with me wanting to deeply meditate with the wonderful energy of a Shiva who also can go deeply within without using others? Why do sexual tantric healers lack in this arena so much? I know I can flow easily of I learn to trust.

Anyway, if somebody is some sort of a spiritual guide, one needs to be an example. It's hard for me to accept spiritual teachers who don't do some sort of spiritual daily practice at all, call them god, goddess, priest, priestess, they are just as beautiful and divine as anybody else, and at that point we all can call all people priest and priestesses, what would be the difference anyway? The good part is they make people happy. I do that too in my simple massages. I have seen pretty happy people, sometimes crying with tears of happiness and love in my practice. I did not even do sex with them??? Go figure!

I just hope that all this sexual healing will not become another capitalistic enterprise without regards for the sincere spiritualist. I like to see a society evolve in which all people are considered priest and priestesses, god, goddess. Sexual healing could be taught in school.

Much is expected of these new healers and spiritualists. I hope they can live up to their lofty ideals, when it comes to the healing aspect.

Ah, I have another question; Is it OK for the sexual healers to have sex with married people who have given each other an oath to help each other physically, mentally, and spiritually? I personally feel uneasy with that thought. Maybe its here where "prostitution"� (I don't like that work when it comes to sexual healing at all), and the "family system"� clashed in the past and still does. Healing can't really happen under such dysfunctions, which are brushed under the rug. So, should we do away with the family structure all together so we have a more authentic and true society? There are just so many issues to address here. How would one deal with healing a married man? Is his spiritual seeking and uplifting what matters the most in this case and his wife matters not? Maybe he does not even know what he wants. Under which circumstance, is sexual healing pono when married? Maybe some walks in life maybe done in the shadow in tantra, breaking rules is part of tantra but can be pretty self-serving as well. Simple logic! I just have not resolved this issue, so forgive me for asking uncomfortable questions.

I love it here and I will peek in more; thanks for doing this forum. It helps a lot of people. luv

Posted: July 16, 2006

Moody, I'd just like to add one caution.

There's much technique that enables various degrees of "God Intoxication". Many are useful for the glimpse through the window that is Satori. Sometimes, in distant history, someone attributed their attainment to the practice, or advisede disciples get a glimpse through it. Usually once.

These practices don't enable awakening, any more than heroin or anything else that can provide that glimpse. They are a look out of a window, not a walk on the street.

I don't know which technique you're calling "tantric sadhana", which means "tantric practice" and refers to a huge range of technique, almost a generic term.

Don't get mesmerised by beautiful visions and beatifications - they are lovely indeed, but there's time enough for that when you're awake, or dead.

To my students, I say "beware of esoteric TV" when they discover entrancing states of bliss, via whichever technique.

Most of Tantric Practice (not supporting exercises, or directed meditations) is specifically designed to trigger awareness.

Awareness, usually translated from the Eastern as "meditation", unflinching awareness and acceptance of the real, howsoever it looks, is the gift, the fruit, the divine nectar of tantric practice.

Rahasya

Posted: July 17, 2006

Moody, first I'd like to thank you for posting and sharing your experiences and views. You are exactly the reason why sacred sex instruction SHOULD be legal: because there are genuine, dedicated professionals like you out there who have something more to offer the world than is currently legally acceptable, and there are many more people with sexual and related issues who aren't getting the help they want and need because our social and legal system doesn't allow it.

Yes, there are details to work out so that the system is as ideal as possible and people aren't taken advantage of. Nor do I suggest that any system will be fool-proof, or that there won't be bumps along the road, especially at the beginning, if we legalize this practice. But it's a road worth opening, because the need is great, and the good that will ultimately come out of it is even greater.

Sacred sex instruction will be like every other profession in that it will evolve in time. Practitioners and clients alike will learn what methods work best; practitioners will grow in their own experience and better be able to assist clients; and the best practitioners will become known and others will follow their methods. It is no different than psychology, medicine, or any other therapeutic field, all of which have changed and grown over the many years of their presence in society.

You mentioned several points I'd like to address:

New Contributor Joined: 25 Oct 2005 Posts: 8

Actually, I should read more and write less. A lot of my concerns are covered very well. I feel so alone in my journey sometimes, having to deal with some of these issues on my own that I tend to just "express." I am rather soft and tend to avoid clashes. You have helped me already. You don't know how relieved I am that I found you. My heart has been aching for people to talk to about the issues I came across as a "healer." Also, because I can't "compete" (and I won't) with the sex workers I developed my massage skills to such high level of nurturing that they are on their own powerfully spiritually transformational. I had clients who went to tantric sex workers who experienced my "non-sexual" healing as more spiritual and more powerful than the work with the sexual healers they had been to. It took me years to develop that kind of work. That for me was healing after having been degraded by tantric sex workers for not giving enough! I love when my clients say something like, you are too good - you don't need to do anything more. I am in bliss." It happened. My ego felt soothed a bit from the pain of not feeling able to give freely.

I love you for having been there for me. I have so many questions and nobody to talk to. This journey I am on is not an easy one sometimes. I think when I tried to talk to tantric workers about the issues, they backed out as if afraid of me. I never wanted to hurt anybody, I wanted to find friends to openly talk about my fears and worries. I wanted to be accepted for who I am and somehow even find community. I am excluded unless I pay them. The traditional tantrics are more nurturing when it comes to community (and I am glad to have them in my life because they are there when things go bad). They are into trying to get "spiritual liberation" and are absorbed in another world. All that "prostitution healer" stuff is really "too much" for them. They would just laugh anyway. I wish the term "prostitution" would be eliminated because of the abuse issues it carries inherently.

Huh??

Gary I send you my love! Namaste! Thank you! luv

New Contributor Joined: 25 Oct 2005 Posts: 8

Posted: July 18, 2006

Thank you for your kind words. You know, I founded the Society for Sacred Sexuality and this website for exactly those same reasons. I've had a desire to create a global community around this knowledge for quite a long time. After personal teaching for several years (counseling, workshops, etc.), I felt that not much progress was being made. I would help a few individuals, and then they would go back to their lives, and a few more would come and I'd start over from ground zero again. The internet offered the opportunity not only to reach so many more people, but to have everything that's offered available to all at anytime. So if someone 10 years from now is facing the same issues as you, they can read these posts and find the same solace you have. It is both an instant and permanent 'community'. My dream now is that it reaches enough people and transforms enough lives that the yearning for it in the real world becomes tangible enough to create it. Then, viola! As you say, there is so much more to come.

Regarding your highly developed massage skills, I understand exactly what you say about awakening people's energy through it, even when it is not overtly sexual. It also can trigger a sexual healing. The reason, as you probably know, is that sexual energy is the same as spiritual energy (life energy). It is one and the same universal energy flowing through the body in different directions. When it flows up into the heart and mind, opening and expanding both, we call it spiritual energy. When it flows primarily down and into the genitals, we call it sexual energy. This of course, is the reason why sex is such a powerful tool for spiritual awakening: because it rouses your energy like none other. All that is left then is to redirect it. Then, ahem, there is much more to come! Hardy-har

I invite you, if you haven't already, to read Lesson 5 in the Sacred Sex Lesson Forum. It deals with massage in much the same way -- not so much as a tool for arousal, but mainly as one for allowing your aroused sexual energy to flow fully through the body to bring about orgasmic release. I'm sure you'd have much insight to contribute there.

You also might like the forum on early sacred sex societies for insight about the term 'prostitution'. Reading a little about the history of others who have walked your path (and been persecuted for it) may comfort you in your own journey. You most definitely are NOT alone -- today or at any time throughout history.

I have mixed feelings about the term. At first, coming from a strong spiritual background, I didn't like it and thought it demeaned the work of the sexual priestesses to whom that label was first applied. But in my experience of teaching sacred sex, I've come across women who wear the 'sacred prostitute' label proudly (even as a banner for advertising), and I realized it is actually a very potent spiritual term (when used with the 'sacred' qualifier in front. The term sacred prostitute indicates exactly what sacred sex is all about: marrying the highest spiritual experience with the 'lowest' bodily one so that both (as we discussed above) are lived together at all times. 'Sacred' refers to the spiritual, and 'Prostitute' refers to the most profane value of body. Together, the term 'Sacred Prostitute' is a marriage of sacred and profane. I think it's a very relevant point in a forum that discusses the legality of what is, under current law, labeled 'prostitution': sacred sex instruction.

Anyway, it's food for thought. I think you're doing quite well dealing with these issues on your own. I'm glad you've found a platform here to express yourself.

Posted: July 18, 2006

This post is about choosing sacred sex work as your profession. The issues involved in making this choice are often directly related to the legality of sacred sex instruction that this forum addresses. It is a very real and practical choice that many must make, as shown by the above discussion.

It's very common that massage therapists and related professionals feel a calling to do sacred sex work. They are already familiar with awakening the body's energy to evoke both a healing and spiritual response. It's only natural therefore that they see how working with the sex energy can evoke the same, often more powerfully.

Unfortunately, professionals in these fields, who are overwhelmingly women, must choose between between legal and socially accepted, and doing what they feel is their calling and also what typically better meets their financial needs. It is for precisely this reason that we seek to legalize sacred sex instruction (and also to remove any social stigma around it). No woman (or man, for that matter), should have to make this difficult choice. Sacred sex work is a beneficial profession to society just like any other (see my Interview on this issue for details). Therefore, those who desire to pursue this profession should have legal right to do so. They should also have the same respect in society given to other professionals.

Until the legal and social situation change, and often even after that due to personal instilled values, workers considering this profession face a profound choice. The following points may help such people choose the best course for their personal situation.

First, be aware that the transition from seeing yourself as a massage therapist (or any other profession) to being a sacred sex worker is just that -- a transition. Allow yourself time (and it may take years) to move through that transition, to the point where you feel comfortable and confident doing sacred sex work. Often during this transition, your intellect will go back & forth with reasons why you should or shouldn't take this step. Your inner feeling will be 'I don't know'. The best way to interpret this experience is that 'I don't know means NO.' It is not the time for you to take that step. When you have sorted all the issues out in your own heart and mind, the 'I don't know' feeling will leave, and there will be no more question. Then you should pursue the work.

In the meantime during the transition, the best thing to do is educate yourself. This will be your natural desire anyway. In most cases, sacred sex work will be somewhat new, and you will want to learn and experience as much as you can about it. Note that sacred sex education includes both learning AND experience. Get as much as you can from every available source -- books, internet, workshop, personal counseling, partner(s), and of course personal practice. This 'education' is what will build your comfort and conviction toward doing this work. As you personally grow through your own sacred sex, you will also clearly see what it is you are to give others. This is the primary vision you need as a sacred sex teacher. When it is there, your work will have focus and meaning.

The other thing you can do during this transition (assuming you are currently a massage therapist or otherwise somewhat related to sacred sex work) is to appreciate the sacred sex component in what you already do. For example, a massage therapist works to awaken and move the life energy through the body to maintain or improve the health of the client. Know that this life energy is the same as sex energy, and you are really offering a non-sexual way of evoking a sacred sex response. This not only expands your appreciation for your own work, but more importantly, lets you begin seeing yourself in the role of a sacred sex worker. You need not advertise or even indicate this new perception to your clients. However, it lets you grow comfortable in the role of sacred sex worker without any outward life change. This again will speed your transition.

If after this you still feel that you need a transition phase before directly engaging in sacred sex work, take the above perception one step further. Continue offering the same massage or other therapeutic services that you have been, but begin to promote yourself and speak in the language of sacred sex. As stated above, it IS the same energy, and you are legitimately offering a form of sacred sex work. (Be sure to be clear about the limitations of what you offer, so as not to mislead clients. Phrases like 'a non-sexual, therapeutic way to transform your sexual energy into spiritual experience' are appropriate.) This again lets you grow comfortable in the role of a sacred sex worker while offering the same service you are already comfortable giving. Most clients, even if they're accustomed to your previous work, will appreciate the new insight into its relation to their sex life.

Ultimately, each individual must make their own choice if and when to do sacred sex work. The above ideas can help clarify that issue for you, and let you accept the natural transition you may be going through.

Posted: January 21, 2008

While not Constitutionally protected, it seems that contact among people is fine as long as there is no contact. All the laws, morals, fears, taboos seem to be rooted in the fear to experience the one thing that separates us from rocks; our response to touch.

Prostitution, when done independently and consensually, to a sexual union with a friend, to massage, to a hug for a friend, to a handshake, to a shoulder pat, to an uninvited but unaffected nudge (to a glance, to a thought, in some circles) all make up the awareness of humanity.

But some humans fear this, some humans avoid it, and some humans want to prevent this.

Why?

I don't know - religion, power, following the other sheep or ignorance?

Why can't consenting people consent to be people and use their acquired intelligence to avoid those simple and complex threats to individual liberty and group endeavors?

I have seen it done, and know it can happen again. You can too.
Maybe someday we'll meet and make it happen.

Posted: January 22, 2008

Hear, hear....

New Contributor Joined: 03 Jan 2009 Posts: 8

This whole website and its founding ethos seems seriously deficient in important ways. It is founded on an Indian (Hindu) tradition, a perspective which it uses to attack conventional morality and dismiss it and its religious manifestion and centuries of tradition as guff. Can those so dismissive of the surrounding, normal culture really have a superior grasp of the sacred? The idea that most Western spiritual commentators are simply lost in a mass deception does not do them justice, nor is there adequate explanation/analysis of why that should be the case.
The website and Society talks about 'sacred sex instruction,' somewhat coyly blurring the key distinction between teaching about sex and actually selling it. Surely we all know that all articulate practitioners of prostitution will defend themselves in these terms?
Try to help me here - I am not seeking to cause unproductive offence. I am coming from a somewhat different culture, it appears. For example, the 'spiritual lady' at the head of the forum pages appears to me, far from sacred, to be wearing a lewd expression.

Posted: January 4, 2009

Hi -- thanks for your views. I'm not sure how much of the website you've read, but I'd like to clarify some misunderstandings.

First, the Society for Sacred Sexuality is NOT founded on Indian or Hindu traditions. Sacred sex has a philosophical origin in the nature of life, which you can read about here. It also has a historical origin in the earliest human societies and civilizations that grew up in the Middle East (what archaelogists call the 'Cradle of Civilization'). You can read about that here.

While India did later develop probably the most advanced and systematic understanding and practice of sacred sex, it is nevertheless just one of many traditions. The only reason it is more represented in the graphics on this website (which probably led to your mistaken conclusion) is that it is the most recognizable tradition today that we associate with this type of teaching. I apologize if that's caused a misunderstanding.

Regarding attacking "conventional morality", first of all, we don't attack anything. Our effort to legalize sacred sex instruction is one that defends sacred sex from attacks on the grounds that it is immoral. We base that position on universal truths of life, and how they impact human values & morality. To learn more about these, read:

Myth of Evil

Sacred Sex Values vs. Sexual Moralism

I'd also point out that you need to be careful when you use words like 'conventional' and 'tradition'. You say we "dismiss [conventional morality] and its religious manifestion and centuries of tradition as guff." You forget that our current moral 'tradition' is basically 2,000 years old (a little longer if you add the Old Testament moral code). It attacked and dismissed a sexually accepting moral code that was tradition for 10-25,000 years. So, we can debate which tradition is true and which not, but we shouldn't use 'tradition' as grounds for proof.

Just so you don't think I'm ignoring any of your points, I want to specifically comment on this sentence:

New Contributor Joined: 03 Jan 2009 Posts: 8

Posted: January 5, 2009

Around Tantrikas, you are not going to find a lot of support for sin. Particularly the original sin in the Xian Bible: Eating of the tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil.

Good and Evil, right and wrong are not simple discernments.

As a Tibetan monk, a scholar of Western history was asked "what do you think the effect of the French Revolution has been on the West?" He wisely replied "Far too early to tell."

The Black Death that killed many and could be regarded as "bad" by many means that we aren't now all Catholics, living under feudalism, which most would probably consider "good."

The fact is that "right" and "wrong" are outside of the human capacity of understanding. To commit the Original Sin .. to rudely usurp the territory of the Divine,and claim this power is possibly the only real "wrong." It is certainly a severely inflated ego-position!

It is better, perhaps to talk in terms of what one likes and dislikes. What one finds erotic, what one finds perverse. What one wants to explore, and in which area one is a ninny.

On my introductory group, I ask everyone to give permisson to the other paricipants. Everyone gets to say to everyone "I give you permission to explore, in your life, even that which I am too scared to explore in mine."

I recommend you meditate a bit deeply into this idea that you know right and wrong. Especially into weather this "knowing" has anything to do with your own personal experience of existence, or if it is just a set of "values", not "yours", and certainly not "knowlege" that have been given to you in your raising!

New Contributor Joined: 03 Jan 2009 Posts: 8

Posted: January 5, 2009

This whole discussion shows the answer to the debate. As we can all see, points of view can be debated, justified, and judged from all sides. There is no 'right' and 'wrong' in that sense -- only what is right for you.

Londheart, your response to my question is exactly right on, and THAT is the point:

New Contributor Joined: 03 Jan 2009 Posts: 8

I think when you're dealing with the law, you need to be clinical in a way which can seem unfamiliar and inhuman. Now what is 'sex?' Many people would be inclined to include voyeurism, titillation, nudity, masturbation and much physical contact in that. Others might argue otherwise, defining sex strictly in terms of a procreative act - on that basis, it sometimes occurs to me, Clinton's denials were not a lie.
I'm not always sure that the law is a good influence or master - it seems to lead, for example, to prolix and unrealistically strict regulations that fail to capture popular interest or observance. Religious law, which often enshrines the sanctity of marriage, and 'sex,'within it, however we define that, can seem more relevant and understood on a popular level.

Posted: January 5, 2009

We're simply concerned with what is defined as 'illegal' sexual contact, as defined by law in various jurisdictions. You're right -- that varies greatly by jurisdiction. When sexuality is combined with practices that raise the sexual energy to induce expanded heart & mind, it is a sacred and uplifting act, and ought not be illegal, even when taught for money.

New Contributor Joined: 03 Jan 2009 Posts: 8

I feel close to exhaustion on this one, but would you accept a rider that long-term effects of activities have to be taken into account in assessing their value, positive or negative?

Posted: January 5, 2009

Absolutely -- we should account for all values.

Posted: January 6, 2009

Thanks for your interest, and I hope I continue the rap in a way that will be of use to whoever comes across it.

First, Gary Joseph has my thanks and respect for getting this forum going, and contributing an impressive and useful body of information.

We have differing views on a couple of things, but seem to manage the EQ fairly well ;-)

I am a teacher of Tantra, have been at that some years now, with what I call success (mainly, students that have become practicing teachers themselves). If you're interested in my school's work, our site is https://tantraschool.co.za

The black death thing... I think credit must go to Dan Carlin (hardcore history) podcast. Pretty sure that's where I first heard the idea. Basically the stagnant, largely deforestated, subsistence based, but unsustainable, heriditary culture suddenly had a shortage of workers, which enabled workers to negotiate wages and working conditions, eventually giving rise to individual rights and trade unions. Onthe religious front, the RCC had everything solidly controlled. Had had it that way a long time too. The depletion of their priests meant they had to reduce priest quality control, and make the job more attractive. Gross corruption followed, and this generation or two of bad priests ensured/enabled/required protest, and first protestantism and then other "heresies" got into the culture.

Of course... who knows if any of this is ultimately "good"; I like some of it, but I refuse to make that judgement. Not mine to make.

.. which is the point of what I am suggesting, directly, and undiluted. as an absolute. I am aware how dangerous absolutes can be, but this one , in my experience, is so useful as to be considered mandatory.

I am not at all respectful of many traditions/positions. There are idiots and dangerous people out there, along with the sweetly motivated. I don't actively "disrespect" them either. I don't go to Christian groups and tell them that they are so hopelessly sexually fascinated, addicted and perverted by their sexual repression that they have no possibility of ever again managing the attainments of their saints.

"rahasya said:
It is better, perhaps to talk in terms of what one likes and dislikes.

Except when it gets out of control.
But I think you may be referring to the need to temper one's perceptions in company, for the sake of politeness(?). "

.. no.

I mean that it is a useful attitude, mental discipline or approach to issues of "right" and"wrong" at ANY scale with an understanding that "I in truth do not know right and wrong" and be forced to "I have no standard by which I can judge. I must make my choice, on my own responsibility. My response can be guided or chosen from my response to the moment, to whatever degree of honesty and depth I choose to respond from. It cannot be guided by my notions of right and wrong, because that is not within my capacity"

I know how strange, how mad this can sound. I know psychologists tell us with certainty that a child of 4 or so "knows right from wrong". bull****. A four year old has discerned what culturally appropriate responses are required. Nothing to do with right and wrong at all.

Tantra (not official ss-now point of view) uses uncompromising insistence on the truth as a method to at least dispel the known veils/occlusions, the understood but commonly accepted cultural lies, no matter how nice or how commonly accepted they may be.

I do seriously recommend to anyone that can understand the suggestion, as I believe the Bible does, an attitude of denouncing/resisting the idea that one knows right and wrong, as a matter of truth.

Forcing any idea, even this idea, that I like so much that I'm tempted to call it "good", but I won't, forcing any idea is an "untrue" thing.

This is a "use a thorn to remove a thorn" strategy. One uproots, removes a false idea by temporarily forcing an opposing view. When the (usually troublesome) view is confronted and removed, the forced view that was used to address it is also discarded. In the case of this particular view about right and wrong, no discarding will be required, because it happens to be true.

So, sure, I urge you, and anyone I can, whether I know anything about you/them or not to at least explore, inquire into this seemingly foolish idea, and discover if there are perhaps a few areas of your life where automatic beliefs are limiting or no longer in accord with what you want.

And, sure, I give more or less unsolicited and advice, and random preaching ... this is a forum. What to do. One takes a wild guess.

I have had all sorts of people making the most amusing, flattering, insulting and every other kind of assumptions about me, from a few words.

Maybe this clarifies things a bit, or clouds them, who can know. Just, for sure, this is an individual's opinion, not the opinion of any organisation or school, Gary J's, or mine.